Some of you responded on the last post you were curious how this is going....so here you go!

The agent & broker have tried reasoning with the Seller, and I've forwarded our attorney's opinion that we have a valid contract and/or the Seller committed fraud by trying to sell something she wasn't legally entitled to sell, but Seller is not budging. In her last email, she bluntly ends the conversation with, "The contract is terminated."

Does this remind you of a tenant refusing to pay rent until we do X, Y, Z that they decide is part of the lease agreement even though it's not? Huffing and puffing...

In latest email, Seller claims someone tried to burn the house down....supposedly threw something flammable against the privacy fence and lit it. I wonder if this is a tactic to scare us away: stories to imply the house is too risky to pursue?

I heard heard of 2 ways... forgive me if my terms are incorrect.

1. Record the contract to the title indicating you have the right to purchase the home (no title ins co would be wise to issue a ti policy on it..yeah.. i know it's a 16k house, but no one closes without it)

2. Record a memorandum of title against it, thereby creating a mechanism to be noticed by a title company when trying to issue title insurance

#22 and James, thanks for the input.

That's such a shame. Sounds like she doesn't know how to negotiate with these debt collectors. It'd be a huge load off her shoulders. Hope she comes to her senses.

I'd wonder if somebody offered her more money?

Id agree the fire is a scare tactic. She's not scared enough herself to sell to you. And it wasn't the actual house-it was the fence. Close but not that close.

NE, you make valid points on the experience gained researching and possibly fighting, and also having a strict budget. It might not pay off for THIS particular property, but later on I think knowing how the process works may be worth a nominal "tuition" in case a later deal is much more $$$.

When I evicted my first tenant, I knew nothing. Had to learn. I didn't let them walk all over me for fear of going to court. I regarded it as tuition in the school of hard knocks, and I learned a lot about screening.

Sid,

Also know a judge can easily throw all that stuff out because

-she did not know about the extra lien

-she is not a porfessional and you are, with an advantage over her

-the price is not realistic for this beautiful plot

-courts are slow to take away someone's property.

Just some thoughts.

Sid,

If a woman promised to marry you and even signed a piece of paper saying she would and then changed her mind on the wedding day,....would you pursue her in court?

NE,

NE and Roy...two of my good pals! You guys make my life and these discussions interesting. Marriage and real estate...two dicey situations if not handled properly.

So here's a thought. I think real estate, like poker, can be a bluffer's game. Right now, I'm looking at our "hands." I'm holding a full house. Either I have a valid contract or I have her arguing she didn't have the legal right to sign the contract which means she has confessed to committing fraud in her email. My view of the Seller's hand compared to mine is she's got nothing at all and is trying to bluff her way out by making no logical argument whatsoever and just saying things like "The contract is terminated."

Will a judge agree? Who says it has to go to that point?

If we serve her notice of either a breach of contract or fraud law suit...maybe she pays up. If not...oh well. I can always dismiss the case. Filing fees are cheap. Clouding the title by recording notice of a lawsuit is cheap. $100-$200 for the whole shebang.

I like your thinking, Sid.

Sid, based on your description of the property and the owners:

NOBODY else will be making them an offer. The liens have them stymied. By placing your lien on this property you will increase the chances that negotiations will re open.

If you don't buy, it as very likely that you will be seeing this one on the tax sale list in the future.

You may as well contact the current lien holders and start those negotiations.

5 bucks says ya don't get it.

Funny. Had almost exactly this situation. Made a 16K offer, sellers signed, and then we found all the liens. Liens were ~ 260K total, mostly clerical where an extra zero was added to a 25K lien. We told the seller the bad news, then got their permission to negotiate on their behalf.

Here's what we did:

- Got our real estate lawyer to handle the lien negotiations for us.

- We didn't know how to negotiate these, and wanted a pro.

We got one. Lawyer got the 260K down to ~3K in liens...at a cost of $500 more in legal time. Sellers were happy to get 13K, we were happy to get a house, lien holders got something, lawyer got paid. Everybody won.

Exactly what Skunk said. When I take the time searching for properties and I finally zero in on one, I WANT IT. I do what I can to get it until I've exhausted my options. You're still in the phase of discovering

Do you have out of pocket damages?

I don't understand why you would sue them over a 16K house?

Am I missing something?

Sounds like they already have financial debt that they can't pay now.

Hello Sid of MO, WOW POA needs a little MORE education from the Realtor that has walked her through two contracts. The first contract was the listing agreement on the house. The 2nd contract the purchase agreement on the house. The owner of the house is the mother and the POA is the daughter. Hmmm the POA says, "The contract is terminated", hold on POA verbally it does not happen that way.

In the listing contract it talks about liens against the property and the seller is responsible for them. As the POA she should have been aware of any existing liens. The mother signed paperwork for any and ALL liens irregardless of who the money was for son, contractor or others. Now the Realtor, Owner(mother), POA daughter have a contract that is valid, its signed and ready for closing.

Sid you may want to have a title company do a title search and get a list of liens on the property. You will spend a few dollars to have this done and you may have it already. However It may give you more leverage knowing the lien holders and lien amounts. Let your attorney know that you want a list of the liens, he most likely will have a title company run the title search. IF your county/State of MO is in the 21st century and you can access the property liens via the internet you may be able to access it yourself and see what liens are against the property. Tell the Realtor, Seller/POA that at closing there will be X amount placed in escrow account that your attorney will have access to the account as your attorney contacts the lien holders to settle the liens. IF there are any moneys remaining once the lien holders are paid off, the legal fees will be paid and the balance will be sent to the POA. Like one of the other posters had mentioned go to the oldest lien holder if they are local and maybe buy the lien for pennies on the dollar. However IF you do this make sure that your attorney is ok with it. I don't think that there would be any issues but it does not hurt to ask your attorney.

On the other hand consider buying out all the liens for penny on the dollars and get the paperwork for the note and record the proper paperwork that you are now the new lien holder. THEN start the foreclosure process on the property and now you may get the house for less.

I believe you most likely have time of the essence in the contract. Push for in writing time of the essence and you are ready to go to closing. The pressure is on the Seller and POA(daughter) and the Realtor as well. I would send time of the essence notice to the Realtor, POA(daughter) and Owner(Mother). Sid have you been given a copy of the POA? It sounds like you are making the POA nervous and that's OK.

By the way Owner/Seller(Mother/Daughter and realtor a buyer does not care what money the seller needs to buy a trailer or beach front property in Hawaii. AND the buyer does not care IF the seller breaks even or does a short sale because the house is only worth fair market value. The person that was going to live in the trailer may have to live with the daughter or rent for several more years. Oh Well its not the buyers concern.

SID of MO the next notice I would send to Realtor, Seller include mother and daughter POA. Send overnight certifiied I would not talk verbally to them nor text or email. This is similar to a tenant that has gone bad. Theres a legal document in play now folks heres how it going to be certified notice to all parties.

The buyers concern is there is a signed sale contract, the property must be free and clear, per paragraph __ of Sale agreement and closing is set for a certain date per sales agreement. Have the title company escrow the funds to cover the liens IF NOT fraud and other issues will be investigated in the POA paperwor, listing and sales contract on this property. As the Buyer I will expect to have notice of closing, date time and location sent to me or a called from the closing company. Time Is Of The Essence per paragraph __ of the sale contract. Thank you Sid of MO Buyer. See you all at closing.

The seller lives in Woodside, CA? It's such an exclusive area in the San Francisco Bay Area. I wonder if she's lawyered up or if she's holding onto a childhood home? Did she come out to California to go to Stanford or to work in Silicon Valley where she met and married a rich guy? Who knows?

"The contract is terminated."

By saying this the seller explicitly agreed that there was a contract. The question then is whether or not she can unilaterally terminate the contract without providing any consideration to you. I would doubt it.

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