Our daughter and 3 young grandchildren live in one of our rentals. In 2010 she agreed in writing to pay $500/month rent. She was working and had always been extremely responsible about paying her bills and about everything else. That same year she quit her job and has refused to work ever since. She allows her boyfriend to live there for free. Until 6 months ago we also paid the utilities and all of her expenses because of our grandchildren. The boyfriend is supposed to pay us $300/month, but has not paid for many months. We have tried to put him out, but she keeps inviting him back. We want to get him banned from our property without evicting our daughter, which would leave our 3 grandchildren homeless. We would gladly take them in, but our daughter says she will hide them from us if we do not continue allowing all of them to live there rent free. We have consulted 3 attorneys, but short of a custody battle, it is not looking good from that standpoint, as Missouri is a "Mothers' state" when it comes to custody. Any suggestions on getting the boyfriend out? Isn't his separate rental agreement with us enough to have him banned from our property?

There is probably drugs involved and you are the enabler. Sorry, just the way it is. You currently have deadbeat tenants.

I ache for you. No there is nothing you can do to get your daughter or her boyfriend to do anything as long as you allow her to hold your grandchildren hostage. Either pay the 500 bucks a month protection money or not, evict the brood and see what happens which might well mean you will lose access to your grandchildren.

Bite the bullet and just support your daughter and those children. Time will make changes. Anything you do that would remove him and her is jeopardizing the well being of those grandchildren. Nothing, not one thing, not one dime is worth causing a problem for those little ones. You are all they have. Seems like the mom is trying to make something work under unusual circumstances. She may actually be afraid of the boyfriend and be unable to tell anyone about it. Do your best and stick with it for the sake of those children. I do feel that something will change.

You're being used, manipulated and threatened.

as a mother and a grandmother of many, I would never permit one of my children ... and as a result my grandchildren ... to be homeless or live in unsafe conditions such as moving here and there.

daughter is not ready to get rid of the boyfriend so she won't. forget about paying ... they're not going to pay you a dime.

are the kids physically and mentally okay? clean, fed, acting age appropriate, doing well in school?

I would tell her AND HIM, face to face, in no uncertain terms what I think of him and that I want him gone. She is not leaving unless you force her to and I wouldn't do that ... but I'd make his life so miserable he'd be gone. She'll stay.

Evidently, none of your 3 attorneys have given you enough of an understanding of the issues for you to see the limitations of the situation. I don't know anything about MO, but I expect that the following are true:

1. There is no such thing as a "separate" lease, the boyfriend apart from the daughter. Most state laws do not permit a landlord to lease a specific property to more than one party at any specific time. Either the boyfriend is a lessee along with the daughter, or he is a guest (of the daughter), but he cannot be a separate lessee leasing the same property at the same time.

2. If it is not forbidden by the lease, your daughter has the right to cohabit on the property with whomever she pleases. As landlord, you may be able to limit use of the property by a guest for an unreasonable length of time, but you cannot obstruct the daughter's right to associate with whomever she pleases (US Constitution).

3. The law has remedies for nonpayment of rent. They, of course, would be applied against the daughter, her being the tenant (lessee). She is essentially subleasing to the boyfriend, but your recourse for nonpayment of rent is limited to eviction and/or lawsuit for payment under the contract.

4. Obviously, your real problem is not a landlord/tenant problem at all, but a matter of your daughter's relationship and/or dependence on the man in her life. Remember that everyone gets lonely and needs a partner in life. If you were to evict your daughter (including all other persons in residence, then she will probably want to remain with the boyfriend. Rent would probably get paid on time, but to a new landlord, not you. Thus, the problem does not really exist on the landlord/tenant level at all, but is a matter of the heart, for which attorneys, 3 or 17 of them, are remarkably ill-equipped.

Point #4 is spot on Moshe.

It is my hope that you are able to resolve this issue, but believe it goes well beyond scope of the board.

You need to talk to an atty who specializes in Family Law. Forget about the LL-T issues and look to the safety and well-being of your grandchildren.

Can you document your daughter's poor choices, poor parenting, drug use or other mental problems? That is where I'd focus. Unless and until I could get custody of the kids, the mom will have a trump card to use against you. So start to document whatever you can, with the advice and guidance of a family law atty!

You might need to transfer the house to another LL, who can evict the mom without it looking like you are cruel and heartless. If you do the eviction, that will be used against you in the family court -- Mom will argue that "grandma evicted her own daughter and grandkids, leaving them homeless! It was grandma who created this situation that she now is seeking to exploit." So transfer the property so that you are not the one to evict!!

Once she is evicted, document what daughter does with the kids, so that you can exploit that situation in the family court!

Wiseguys (Gramma and Grampa) I will put you and your situation on my "positive think" list (like praying). I do know that time changes situations. They may have a fight, she may get tired of him, etc. Keep in good touch with the grandchildren so you can know of their welfare. Talk to the oldest one about the home situation (if old enough) and you may find out a lot--kids see and hear more than you expect. They must have some money coming in--or how do they pay electric, water, car payments and food bills?

She can apply for WIC food coupons, Welfare, and even Sec8 (which will pay YOU) if she is not working and has small children at home.

Give her the house? At what cost? Risk your retirement security for a dead beat loser? Risk your good credit? How is that helping your grandchildren?

But she quit her job in 2010 and has had all her bills paid for? All that enabling hasn't resulted in anything but parental abuse. I can't believe what I'm hearing.

What is allowed to continue, will continue.

Should have had a difficult conversation after she quit her job in 2010.

But we tend to start how we intend to go.

It's time to get tough. Your daughter is an extortionist! Turn your property over to a Real Estate Management Co.

Tell here the property is no longer in your control. The management co. will provide her with a lease at full market value, and if you fail to pay the lease, they will evict you from the property.

Be firm! She may pull the grand kids away for a while, but she will be back.

Don't back down.

I love my children too much to allow them to act like fools while I participate. Keep in mind...your grandchildren are watching. I'm pretty sure you don't want them to grow up to act like this. But that means ripping the BandAid off. The last thing you want is for them to follow their parents' example.

Tough love? No...just love. Giving a drunk a drink is not love. It's the worst thing you can do for them. Sometimes I think the hardest part of being a parent is letting your kids fail and hit rock bottom. But that may be the only way to get them started down a path to a real life.

I like property management idea. Along with supporting the grandkids SPECIFICALLY, ie taking them to buy some school clothes and removing the tags immediately, buy them a pizza, throw them a birthday party, take them to the park or library in the summer. If you build a good foundation, whether or not she moves away from you they will remember! They grow up and usually seek out the stable figures in their lives. I also thought there were grandparents' rights to see their grandchildren. Not that you want to go that route.

Idea #1 You can give your rental to a property manager for specific duties because of your health. Property manager is to follow the lease. If she wants to talk about the rental- "Sorry, I just get the checks. They take money out of the rent and handle it all. Oh-their number? 1-800-GTHO. How's the kids?"

Also, did you give them separate leases? Correct me if I'm wrong, but not sure you can really do that? I thought each house had to have only one lease/contract at a time. You will probably have to do two evictions if you can do it at all.

Idea #2 Does the lease end? Don't renew and tell them you need them to leave so you can remodel--which is most likely the truth at this point.

Ay, what a situation. So sorry. Time to get them a little uncomfortable!! She can do this- but your support of her antics to this extent says to her that she can't. She will emerge on the other side a stronger woman who faces her responsibilities head on.

Reminds me of an episode of "The Super" on Netflix. Reality TV show of a landlord- episode when his stepdaughter has moved in and taken advantage of their relationship.

Good luck-

Can't imagine something like this happening. Today is mothers day.One daughter and two grandchildren came over with homemade cake and a flowering plant,Another with all kinds of goodies and did this and did that! Like NE and Ken said,something bad has happened to your daughter over which she has no control.There has to be a lawyer who is shrewd enough to guide you in this time of turmoil. Like getting guardianship of your grandchildren.I'm at a loss for words,and that just isn't like me?........Charlie........................................................

My input is much of the same from above. With her

doing the complete 180 sounds like the boyfriend introduced

her to drugs. People on drugs don't care about paying rent

they now need that money for drugs. They quit their job because they can no longer function .

Either sell the house or give it to her. Time for tough

love.

It is indeed a sad situation. How has the daughter supported herself and her family since she quit her job? Solely by relying on public assistance? If so, what good example does that show to her children? Allowing the status quo instills no work ethic into those grandchildren. I too, would assign management duties over to a management company (for health reasons). State that lease terms are to be enforced, including the expected rent payments. That way, the remembered face of the bad guy performing the eviction act will be of third parties, NOT of grandma. (And yes, it's tough love.)

You didn't mention of this is your only child and how much rental property you own!

The same thing happened to a good friend of mine. A child stopped paying rent for living in a rental home. The parents owned the entire block, both sides of the street, 20 homes.

So to solve this problem, because their other 2 children were paying market rents, the parents modified their wills. The child not paying rent got the house now rent free, but got cut out of the will, losing their 1/3 interest in the other rental home -- or a million dollars.

I would allow her to stay on one condition. MONTHLY DRUG TESTS .... in lieu of rent. If she tests clean then you are providing a safe home for the kids. If not EVICT. That is the tough love needed to help everyone in the long run.

You have no control of the situation as a landlord unless you are willing to give up your grandchildren. So forget legal advice. You're not willing to do what you legally can and you can't legally do what you wish you could do.

Here's what I would do:

1. I would amend my will so that my daughter got nothing and the grandchildren receive her share. Place it in a trust managed by a third party that the children can have in time for college.

2. Have the boyfriend investigated. Find out if it is drugs.

Robert J [CA])

tryan [MA])

Landlord of the Flies [TX]

Thank you to these three for their constructive comments and suggestions. You each presented some very good options for me that may actually have a positive outcome.

Also, I appreciate that you actually made thoughtful suggestions instead of just regurgitating the negatives and seemingly hopelessness of the situation back at me,like many of the others did, making me feel even worse. I already know how bad it is, and I already feel horrible and heartbroken about it. I didn't need salt in the wounds.

I asked for help and I really didn't need the judgmental comments that many of the others offered.

Thank you again to those that actually offered constructive, positive, and thoughtful advice. Your suggestions give me hope :)

I wonder if the many who said to boot her out are grandparents. I truly cannot imagine anyone putting a grandchild on the street.

This has nothing to do with finances (unless the op can't pay their own bills due to this but that doesn't seem the situation).

It seems she is welcoming him to her house. Attempting to control who your adult daughter chooses as her boyfriend isn't likely to work. You view him as the problem when she is just as much of the problem if not more. Sounds like your questions are suited for an eviction attorney.

It seems since your only agreement is with him, he is your tenant. An eviction attorney should be able to advise you.

If he's not your tenant then he could be charged with trespassing but that would likely have to be done by your daughter.

Why not move into your own house with your daughter and charge him with trespassing yourself?

LisaFL [FL]

What is wrong with this picture?

Chances are that you will only enable your daughter's misbehavior and chances are that she won't put her children first.

As someone who just bailed out a frieend last week, I confess that I made a terrible mistake in doing so. What happened? The guy faileld to service debt with the money I sent him, Instead, he chose to CONSUME most of it. (Assuming you pay someone's rent and learn he chose to go to a bar instead).

Hitting rock bottom is part of life. Want to shield your folks from the necessary consequences? She could work, but chooses not to? (I encountered whole communities of able bodies young people - all on disability. H*ll knows how thay have been faking it, but it sure worked out well for them).

Do you think such a mother will pass on ethical values to her children?

You're Welcome.

FWIW I didn't invent the drug test idea. I am watching a good friend use it on thier son. They booted him from thier house because of pathlogical lying and drug addiction. But they gave him a monthly stipend, CC, phone and car so he wouldn't be on the streets.

Well his poor choices only escalated ... and it was on thier dime. So he was "paid" to pass bi-weekly drug tests. Fail the test and everything is taken away. Given that choice, he choose to get clean.

He's been clean 3 months and is gainfully employed.

Another thing you could try is to sell the home, but offer your daughter and grandchildren free room and board with utilities at your home, minus the boyfriend of course.

Use any old excuse for selling the rental she is living in.....like you really need to funds to invest in the next big Ponzi scheme *wink *wink.

myob [GA]

Thank you for your "compassionate" input. I reached out to the forum for advice, not your arrogant opinion.

Your response had nothing to do with advice and everything to do with solely being rudely judgmental. It seems the only reason you responded was to be hateful, because there was not a shred of advice only a mean judgmental statement. Do you really need to be hateful so badly that you had to kick me while I'm down, just for the sake of saying something mean? I really hope if you are that desperate to be cruel, that you got your thrill from it, because it served no other purpose and was 100% nonconstructive.

Amy [MO]

I really like your ideas. My husband and I have been discussing them and are likely going to implement them in combination with some other good suggestions that have been offered.

Lynda [TX]

Thank you for your compassion and understanding. Your suggestions are good and positive thoughts are appreciated. I'm glad you understand that I cannot justify putting my grandchildren at risk. That is what makes the situation so difficult. I have been providing for the children and they are all aware that what they have comes from me. I also stress to them that they need to study hard so they can get into a good college to qualify for a good job so they won't end up living rest of their lives scraping by like they are now with their mom not working. I let them know how Grandpa and I worked hard to earn the nice things that they see we have. We tell them stories and share memories about how we started out and how we felt satisfaction each time we improved our lives, hoping that it will serve to neutralize the negative impact our daughter's current lifestyle has on them. We also talk about how their mom used to be. They will tell you they want their "old mom" back "like she used to be." They remember all the years she was a great mom. They despise her boyfriend.

Colin [CO])

Thank you, Colin! Great suggestion. Definitely an option worth exploring. I will talk to my attorney about it.

Carol,

Best of luck to you. It is a hard place to be.

I didn't chime in earlier because I didn't have anything new that was constructive and didn't want to be negative.

Barb [MO]

No, they do not. I wish they had one(or some kind of advocate), but the Family Law Attorney says they cannot appoint one unless we file for custody and, according to the courts and Family Services, the conditions are not severe enough for us to have a chance of winning, unless the electric AND water get turned off. Last time we tried, it was only the electric that was off(the house is all electric), but it was for almost 3 months(and 20 degrees at night!) and even that wasn't enough for Family services to recommend removing the children from the home!!! If we could get the kids out of there, the rest would sad but manageable. We love our daughter and until the last few years,she has been good, responsible, very close to us, and considerate. As much as it breaks our hearts and makes us fear for her well-being, she is an adult making her own decisions, which lately have been pretty scary ones.

I agree with turn the property over to a management company temporarly. This takes you out of the drama. You don't want to be the one evicting them.

I suspect drugs. People on drugs are very manipulative. It is easy to be manipulated when it's somebody who you care for, even if they made very bad decisions and drugs are controlling their life.

Mike [CO]

Thank you, Mike! You're right it is easy to be manipulated when it is someone you love because you want to believe the best in them. It is good to know that you had success in evicting your troublesome tenants without harming your good tenants. Since I originally started this inquiry, I have been talking to a local property management company, trying to negotiate a shorter contract with them than their standard one-year minimum agreement. They are the only one around here(we are very rural) and they are mostly associated with less than desirable landlords and their less than desirable properties, so I do not want my good reputation to be negatively affected by being associated with them for too long.

Carol,

I am happy I could help. If you are going to the convention look me up.