Another dog atack (by kevin [FL]) Feb 14, 2017 12:57 PM|
Another dog atack (by S i d [MO]) Feb 14, 2017 1:41 PM
Another dog atack (by plenty [MO]) Feb 14, 2017 1:52 PM
Another dog atack (by Emily [TX]) Feb 14, 2017 1:55 PM
Another dog atack (by cjo'h [CT]) Feb 14, 2017 2:36 PM
Another dog atack (by WMH [NC]) Feb 14, 2017 2:42 PM
Another dog atack (by Emily [TX]) Feb 14, 2017 2:49 PM
Another dog atack (by WMH [NC]) Feb 14, 2017 2:53 PM
Another dog atack (by Ken [NY]) Feb 14, 2017 2:56 PM
Another dog atack (by kevin [FL]) Feb 14, 2017 3:16 PM
Another dog atack (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Feb 14, 2017 7:18 PM
Another dog atack (by Barbara [VA]) Feb 15, 2017 2:43 AM
Another dog atack (by Robin [WI]) Feb 15, 2017 4:56 AM
Another dog atack (by Shaun [FL]) Feb 15, 2017 5:41 AM
Another dog atack (by CDM [CA]) Feb 15, 2017 6:01 AM
Another dog atack (by Emily [TX]) Feb 15, 2017 7:03 AM
Another dog atack (by WMH [NC]) Feb 15, 2017 7:53 AM
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Feb 15, 2017 8:28 AM
Another dog atack (by AllyM [NJ]) Feb 15, 2017 10:34 AM
Another dog atack (by W [AR]) Feb 15, 2017 4:07 PM
Another dog atack (by Janet [KY]) Feb 15, 2017 10:49 PM
Another dog atack (by AllyM [NJ]) Feb 16, 2017 4:58 AM
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Feb 16, 2017 6:46 AM
Another dog atack (by CGB [MI]) Feb 16, 2017 4:06 PM
Another dog atack (by gevans [SC]) Feb 16, 2017 5:56 PM
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Feb 16, 2017 6:51 PM
Another dog atack (by gevans [SC]) Feb 16, 2017 6:56 PM
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Feb 16, 2017 7:25 PM
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Feb 16, 2017 7:25 PM
Another dog atack (by gevans [SC]) Feb 17, 2017 3:50 PM
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Feb 17, 2017 6:38 PM
Another dog atack (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Feb 18, 2017 4:48 PM
Another dog atack (by New gal [OR]) Feb 19, 2017 3:49 AM
Another dog atack (by Chris [CA]) Feb 19, 2017 5:45 AM
Another dog atack (by kevin [FL]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 12:57 PM
Reprint from the Lakeland ledger: A Polk County sheriff's deputy on Monday shot and killed a pit bull after it mauled a Lakeland Electric employee who had entered the property to fix a meter. A Lakeland police dispatcher made the call after the city employee, Linda Dionne, 59, had activated the emergency button on her radio and could be heard screaming. Dionne did not respond to attempts to reach her through the radio. --47.201.xxx.xxx
Another dog atack (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 1:41 PM
Cue, "it's the owner's, not the dog's" fault.
At the point someone is dead or maimed for life, I really don't care whose fault it is. Poodles may bite more often than pits, but I can drop kick a poodle 50 feet. --173.19.xx.xxx
Another dog atack (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 1:52 PM
What??? Sheriff's deputies have guns?
Well, this is terrible. Thank goodness Linda had the emergency button. It must have been quite a helpless feeling.
Will be interesting to hear how the owner is held responsible.
I often wonder, as i get those "we have a pit bull, so sweet" calls, if they would want to live amoungst themselves. For example a large multi family building where it's only rented to people who own pit bulls, maybe there would be a dog park, do you think I could rent those units, for more money and all day long? Or do you think they would not want to live near other pit bulls cause they may or may not be 'sweet'... --173.108.xx.xxx
Another dog atack (by Emily [TX]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 1:55 PM
I'm more curious what this story has to do with landlording.
Another dog atack (by cjo'h [CT]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 2:36 PM
Emily, if you don't get it,you're in the wrong business?..........Charlie.............................................. --174.199.x.xxx
Another dog atack (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 2:42 PM
Because a dog that bites is a liability issue, Emily. --173.22.xx.xx
Another dog atack (by Emily [TX]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 2:49 PM
I'm very aware that dogs that bite (among countless other things) are liability issues. That still doesn't make this story relevant to landlording. Posting this story is like posting a random news item about someone who tripped and fell on a sidewalk.
To put it another way: How is this story intended to help or benefit people in their landlording business?
Another dog atack (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 2:53 PM
Charlie, Emily MIGHT be who Sid was referring to...She regularly says, "It's not the dog, it's the owner's fault." --173.22.xx.xx
Another dog atack (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 2:56 PM
Plenty,I think you could fill a building with dog lovers in a heartbeat and rent at a premium,forget about a dog fee and deal with excuses about service dog etc,just charge 20%-25% higher rent and no fee --24.25.xxx.xxx
Another dog atack (by kevin [FL]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 3:16 PM
More on this story, dog had attacked someone months before. 21year old owner now charged with felony. No information if they were renters. Be careful. --47.201.xxx.xxx
Another dog atack (by RathdrumGal [ID]) Posted on: Feb 14, 2017 7:18 PM
Pit bull owners should form their own mutual insurance company to cover any liability arising from their dogs. Premiums would be low because their dogs are so sweet. Actuaries are very skilled at putting a dollar value on the actual risk. --98.145.xx.xxx
Another dog atack (by Barbara [VA]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 2:43 AM
Emily, dogs actually are land lording issues. We do need to be aware of where laws are trending as well as what is popular in the tenant's mindset. It's not just what color walls tenants want.
And regardless, many of us have been posting here for years and we do enjoy the benefit of having occasional discussions of non land lording issues. What's wrong with that? --68.107.xxx.x
Another dog atack (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 4:56 AM
In my experience, applicants with pit bulls usually have other issues that make them undesirable tenants. I'm still waiting for the applicant with credit over 600, 3x the monthly rent in stable income, and pitbull owner. --104.230.xxx.x
Another dog atack (by Shaun [FL]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 5:41 AM
Agree. However, I would add 'No public record', aka some sort of past legal trouble to the list.
And before everyone jumps--I'm not saying ALL pit bull owners are criminals, but there does seem to be a high corelation between the two. --205.223.xxx.xx
Another dog atack (by CDM [CA]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 6:01 AM
I'm sure that not all pit bull owners are criminals, but all the criminals I know (quite a few, through my adopted daughter's birth family) are pit bull owners. --74.96.xxx.xx
Another dog atack (by Emily [TX]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 7:03 AM
It's true that I regularly say it's the owner's fault. That's not a line, it's actually a fact. I am around a lot of different dogs on a regular basis because I volunteer in rescue. I see dogs in the shelter, I see them in foster homes, I see them at adoption events, I see them in the new family's home. I know a lot about dogs and dog behavior and what I know I learned from professionals, from science and (less importantly) from my own experience.
Yes, there are dangerous dogs. This was clearly a dangerous dog. Almost all the factors that contribute to dog bites are present here:
- Dog kept outside presumably with little human interaction, aka a "resident dog" not a family dog.
- Dog caged outside unattended.
- Dog not fixed
- Female dog with new pups
- Dog has shown aggression in the past.
There's no excuse for what happened because it should be obvious to anyone the risk from this particular dog.
Here are factors that do *not* contribute to dog bite risk:
Who the dog's parents are.
What shape the dog's head is.
This is based in reality and science. It's important to me for people to recognize what really constitutes risk, because the problem with breedism and discrimination based on appearance, is that it ignores all the factors that actually cause risk. This is how people get hurt. I don't want to see people get hurt.
If a dog has a history of aggression, that needs to be dealt with. Maybe the answer is professional training. Maybe the answer is something else. Yes, my rescue has euthanized dogs that were considered a risk. This is obviously a last resort, but it happens to any responsible organization that works with dogs. Not every dog is suitable to live with a family or even to be around people. They are animals and each one is an individual with its own temperament and experiences that shape their behavior.
The issue I have with these articles being posted is that they are inflammatory and ignore the real issue and the real risk. The risk is not that this dog has a big head. The risk is instead that this dog was untrained, undisciplined, unfixed, and a protective mama bear. --155.201.xx.x
Another dog atack (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 7:53 AM
Emily, did you ever check out the Fox study I have referred to several times regarding breeding for behavior traits?
A scientist in Russia worked with foxes. S/he would immediately separate the more sociable pups from the more timid or aggressive ones. She would then breed like to like, for several generations.
She ended up with foxes that were doglike in their affections for humans, and with foxes that were "demons." Pure aggression, no way to tame them.
This was all done through selective breeding.
We've seen that done with dogs through the years. We breed for looks, for behavior, for skill sets.
It is NOT always nurture vs. nature. And unfortunately, when a dog gains popularity as a breed, humans usually go out of their way to ruin them by breeding for specific traits.
A dog CAN be "born aggressive." --173.22.xx.xx
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 8:28 AM
1. I had a tenant with an Emotional Support Animal that was a pit bull. Had no problems with it. She had all of the proper documentation from her doctor even. Sure, it was likely a scam -- but nothing I could do about it and she was well qualified.
2. There is a pit bull in my (furnished) basement right now that we're long-term dog-sitting for. An elderly friend of ours was in the hospital with a broken leg and we were dog-sitting for her -- and she passed away (likely a blood clot). So, now our short-term dog sitting has turned into long-term dog sitting while we figure out what to do. (A grandchild of hers is likely to take the dog soon.)
In any case, she is a great dog and very friendly. I have no problems with her and we can even "rough house" a bit because she likes to play/wrestle/whatever. That being said, I'm not going to leave her alone with our cats -- because I don't trust her at that level.
Long story short: I tend to agree with Emily -- that it certainly isn't just the dog type that matters here. It is being smart and knowing the dog itself that really matters.
Another dog atack (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 10:34 AM
WMH, I know about the Fox study. All of the docile foxes were black and white Breeding out the aggression also breeds out the red color.
Electric meters are outside around here and the meter readers know where the dogs are. Sad about the woman. My neighbors pit was systematically taking down my six food wood fence in the back unknown to me. Then I got a spirit warning to go look back there. One or two fence slats left. I got on the phone with the fence guy and he showed up in two hours with four fence sections. Again, my life was saved. It was a big aggressive non neutered male.
Kevin, thanks for posting this. Emily seems to be a PITA. We have had some wise acres here before and I enjoy putting them in their place. --73.33.xxx.xxx
Another dog atack (by W [AR]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 4:07 PM
I am a professional firefighter and landlord. On many occasions (firefighting), I have walked behind a house or apartment to be met face to face by a vicious pit bull wanting to get to me. I am lucky that the dog came at me before I got within the reach of his chain. Pit bulls are a problem, wherever you find them. I have heard all the stories about it's the owners, etc. I don't care...it's about the safety of who ever comes in contact with these dogs. They are a problem waiting to happen. --108.196.x.xx
Another dog atack (by Janet [KY]) Posted on: Feb 15, 2017 10:49 PM
My neighbors pit attacked me when I was 28 yr old. I escaped through a gate with him hanging on my leg and managed to get my leg away from him. One came at my sister who had knee replacement just last summer and
she was rescued by the dog's owner before it got to her.
It is a serious problem these dogs attacking landlords children, elderly walking their little dogs and even their own owners. We as landlords need to be aware of the real dangers of these dogs before we let them into our properties. Thanks for posting Kevin. --74.236.xxx.xxx
Another dog atack (by AllyM [NJ]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 4:58 AM
A small female "Staffordshire Terrier"
which is a pit, grabbed my arm when I was a child and dragged me around the yard until my mother heard me screaming and came out. The dog's owner, a child my age of about six or seven, was throwing sticks for it to fetch. I picked up a stick to throw and it grabbed my arm instead. I had purple bite marks but no blood. Dogs could run free them. --73.33.xxx.xxx
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 6:46 AM
No one is saying that pits don't bite. It's just the idea that all of them MUST be bad because of breeding that is inaccurate. These anecdotal stories don't change that.
When I was a kid, a German Shepherd bit me for walking too close to its property. That does mean that all German Shepherds are bad? Of course not.
When I was a kid, an Irish Wolfhound -- which is an insanely large dog -- crashed into me when playing and knocked my legs right out from under me. I could have been seriously injured if it had been on a hard surface instead of grass. Does that mean that all Irish Wolfhounds are bad animals? Of course not.
Am I careful around certain breeds more than I would be with some other breeds? Absolutely. Still doesn't mean that all of that breed are bad. It just means that people should be smart about it.
On a side note, if ANY little kid picks up a stick around almost ANY neighborhood dog that is playing fetch, then it wouldn't be surprising at all to me if that dog grabbed the kid's arm thinking it was playing with the stick. That's what happens when you have large dogs and little kids. Even if they aren't attacking.
And, heck, it sounds like it didn't even break the skin. If that pit had WANTED to hurt you seriously, you'd have been bleeding. Sounds to me like it was EXACTLY like a dog just trying to play and not realizing what it was doing. Doesn't make it a bad dog...
Another dog atack (by CGB [MI]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 4:06 PM
I am a physician and when I was training researched and presented my findings regarding dog bite attacks in children. Dogs have a pack mentality and children because of their small size, are seen as subordinate. These subordinates are often kept in their place by biting and nipping usually at the face. Three breeds accounted for 80 percent of the attacks, pitt bulls, rotwiellers and German shepards. I am sure there are friendly, non aggressive, pitt bulls, rotwiellers and German shepards out there and most of them probably don't attack but it seems in general these breeds have a propensity more so than other breeds. The question is are you willing to take the risk? With small children in the house, especially babies brought into the home after the dog has established his rank in the pack and his territory, I would be very cautious, whether it be my family or a renter. --70.210.xx.xxx
Another dog atack (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 5:56 PM
There are many pit bulls here in SC. Some of them I know personally. Some are gentle and loving. Others are more like demons.
Pit bulls are bred to be aggressive, but their are exceptions.
The problem is in their strength. When a smaller dog bites, I can kick him away. When a pit bites, he hangs on for dear life and uses his massively strong jaws to crush and destroy.
So it's not just the risk; it's the size of the risk.
Statistically, pits are responsible for more bites than all other breeds combined. I'm not playing with that statistic, would you?
I'll take a risk with a firecracker. I won't play with dynamite.
I do not allow pits in my rentals and will not own one. Too great a risk even if there are good ones out there. --173.233.xxx.xx
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 6:51 PM
Gevans: While I agree with most of what you've said, I think I should point out that even you have made the same mistake that many make: the pit is NOT the breed responsible for the most BITES.
It IS responsible for the most deaths, but not the most bites.
Different studies show different results (and bites are not tracked as well as they should be), but, statistically, it appears that the breeds most responsible for BITES of humans are the Jack Russell Terrier, the Cocker Spaniel, and various Labradors.
Again, I get your point about the pit -- you're more likely to be KILLED by one than any other breed right now -- but when you're going to argue about dog BITE statistics, I feel that it should be accurate. And yours weren't from what I could find.
Another dog atack (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 6:56 PM
You are correct John. Deaths, not bites.
I can handle a bite. Not so sure I want to risk death. --173.233.xxx.xx
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 7:25 PM
We're still talking about a very tiny percentage though. So, put simply: Yes, out of all dog breeds, you are more likely to be killed by a pit than any other breed.
But out of all the pits out there, you're chances of being attacked by one are still very, very, very tiny. :)
Pits kill about 21 people per year in the USA. For comparison, lightning kills about 33 people per year in the USA. But that doesn't mean I don't go outside any more. You are over 100 times more likely to die from choking in a year than from a pit attack -- and yet I still keep sucking down (veggie) hotdogs without chewing properly! :)
I think sometimes we over-worry. :)
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 16, 2017 7:25 PM
Bah -- typo'ed on "you're" -- should be "your chances of being attacked...", of course.
Another dog atack (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Feb 17, 2017 3:50 PM
The lightning/pit bite comparison is good.
You can increase or decrease your risk:
every person struck by lightning was outside during a lightning event.
And every person bitten by a pit bull has interfaced with a pit bull.
In both cases, it may be by accident or on purpose.
Also in both cases, you can greatly reduce your personal risk by NOT being outside in a lightning event or NOT interfacing with a pit bull.
That's why I chose to avoid that breed, even though the majority of pits I have met personally are gentle and friendly. I just don't need that extra risk. --173.233.xxx.xx
Another dog atack (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Feb 17, 2017 6:38 PM
Agreed -- you can reduce your risk with both -- but my point was that it is still really, really unlikely. Even if you DO go outside in bad weather now and then or even if you DO interact with pits now and then. :)
We can agree to disagree on how much "extra risk" it really is. Because, as I said, I believe it is still very, very unlikely. It isn't that much "extra risk" -- especially when even you admit that the "majority" of them that you've interacted with have been very nice dogs.
I think that's the point I'm trying to get across.
We have people here that are terrified of the "risk" of pits. And yet probably haven't checked their stairs for loose boards in a long time. The reality is that a lawsuit from a stair fall because of that is probably 100x more likely than a pit attack in a rental.
Another dog atack (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Feb 18, 2017 4:48 PM
It doesn't matter who is at fault - what matters is who appears to have the deepest pockets.....and sadly we are all rich investors with pockets full of cash.
Since the investor allowed the tenant to have the animal - for whatever reason - they will be held at least partially responsible in the civil case --24.239.xx.xxx
Another dog atack (by New gal [OR]) Posted on: Feb 19, 2017 3:49 AM
Girlfriend, I hear you, but you are not going to get anywhere on this website. The regulars have already passed judgement. I don't like pitties but know folks with great dogs like you've described.
Sigh, just when I think I'll never post again........
Another dog atack (by Chris [CA]) Posted on: Feb 19, 2017 5:45 AM
@ Ken, initially, yes. But within weeks, the dogs would likely be fighting, maulign each other and scaring some owners off. --109.193.xxx.xx